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April 2013 Vol. 20. No. 5 Focus on Getting to Graduation

Theme articles

Charter six-year graduation rate hits 80%

By the Notebook on Mar 26, 2013 05:15 PM

Four of five Philadelphia charter high school students now graduate within six years.

The on-time, four-year graduation rate was 76 percent for students who started high school in 2008 and graduated in 2012. That rate is the same as two years ago. 

Charter school graduation rates have consistently exceeded District rates by 12 to 18 percentage points over the past five years. However, charter high schools overall educate smaller percentages of low-income students and special education students than District schools.

Comments (95)

Submitted by Bob L (not verified) on March 26, 2013 5:30 pm
I was talking to a Charter school teacher today. She told me that they have a partnership with Camelot, where they specifically come into the schools and pull out students who will not behave and that next year (they are in the first year of a charter this year), they can start kicking kids out. Finally, I was also told by this teacher that if a student isn't doing what they are supposed to be doing, they will suspend them every day until the parent finally pulls them out. Seriously, this is the kind of system that we want? I don't think so!
Submitted by Ms. Pat (not verified) on March 26, 2013 6:05 pm
I agree- a school that uses taxpayer's money has an obligation to educate all students, not just the "average and above" students. Students with behavior issues and learning difficulties are NOT throw-away children.
Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on March 26, 2013 10:53 pm
You're right- They're not throw-away children, but their rights aren't any more important than the rights of the other students, so let's educate everybody, and differentiate by providing alternative learning environments, until such time as the children are able to exhibit more appropriate behaviors.
Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on March 26, 2013 10:47 pm
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Submitted by ms pat (not verified) on March 26, 2013 11:36 pm
The article indicates that Charters have proportionately lower #'s of kids with IEPs- that would include those needing learning support and/or emotional support. Differentiate by providing supports they need, not by segregation.... that's against the law. But it is easier and cheaper and apparently charters get away with it.
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Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on March 27, 2013 12:34 am
You mean a system where there are behavioral standards and a modicum of discipline, where the school policies prioritize the rights of students who want to learn over the rights of chronic behavioral problems to disrupt and intimidate others? I think that IS the system most parents want. Amazing the district still won't admit that it doesn't help kids with anti-social behavioral problems by pandering to them, pretending they have the right to screw up everyone else's education. All you do however help destroy everyone else's learning environment. This is the number one reason people choose charters- that the district still refuses to reevaluate its policies shows they made the right choice.
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Submitted by Thomas Green (not verified) on April 16, 2015 2:06 am

You have provided very nice and informative statistics. Thank you for the post. Keep it up.

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Submitted by Jhonnydhol (not verified) on April 16, 2015 8:39 am

This stat is really very depressing. You people are destroying your own kind buy making education difficult for them. This difficulty is not because the government does'nt fund you properly, its because of the financial policies in place. The interest is killing you. Interest is a form of cruelty that you have endorsed upon yourself and your children. Even the small rants who have become billinaires by being in this interest system know within themselves that how much flawed the system actually is.

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Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on April 17, 2015 3:45 am

These stats provide the details of what the school systems are going through and what are the students aimimg for and what the government needs to do at this prevailing time. Very good stats.

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Submitted by aample (not verified) on April 17, 2015 2:06 pm

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Focus on your graduation. These days kids want to get into get rich fast techniques. They are awesome and lucurative but its a drag in the future.

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Submitted by aample (not verified) on April 17, 2015 2:08 pm

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Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on March 26, 2013 6:31 pm
This is the very reason parents who are involved in their child's education go to charter schools! The difference between SDP and charter schools is not the teachers, materials, nor the curriculum- but the students themselves. Those who disrupt are kicked out. Parents who care want an environment of learning for their children. I am a SDP teacher and know this to be true. A school can be held hostage by some of the most disruptive students and disrespectful, uninvolved parents ever to exist on earth. Those who care, get out as soon and as fast as possible.
Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on March 26, 2013 10:07 pm
I'm a Philadelphia teacher as well, and you have hit the nail on the head! Just imagine what we could do if only we could get the disruptive kids out of our classrooms and put them into their own little supervised environments, away from the students who come to school to learn. We could staff the room(s) with certified teachers and let the students and their parents know that they (the students) can rejoin their classmates when they get their act together. NOBODY should be given the right to steal the education of the students who behave appropriately and come to school to learn (Whatever happened to THEIR rights?!!!) While I'm on a roll, I'm sick of the buck being passed to the teachers, as if any amount of training could ever prepare us to deal with the ridiculous behaviors that we see in our classrooms. I feel badly for the horrible things that many of our students have to deal with in their lives, and I wish that I could wave a magic wand and change things, but I/we can only do so much. Teachers are not super-human. Most of us are just hardworking, dedicated people who try to do right by our 'kids.' We often go home so emotionally drained by what we experience during the day that we have little left over for our own families. It doesn't have to be like that. Why don't we band together and demand a working environment that is more conducive to learning and teaching? Let's include THAT in the contract proposal. If we don't do something about this soon, the traditional public schools will evolve into nothing more than warehouses for students who've been 'rejected' by the charter schools.
Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on March 26, 2013 10:23 pm
Yes! Yes! Yes! You have "hit the nail on the head!"
Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on March 27, 2013 1:31 am
This is right on-target. Most of these "rights" that hamstring urban districts were passed into federal and state law with strong union support. If the national union supported changing these policies, they would change immediately. There is no real political support or policy rationale for defining bad behavioral as a protected disability. This sentiment strikes the average person, really anyone with common sense, as completely absurd. Unfortunately I suspect the path to changing the unions position will be more difficult than it should be.
Submitted by ProPublicEducation (not verified) on March 27, 2013 3:00 pm
How right you are. Public schools don't have the "luxury" that charter schools do of "counseling children out", aka convince parents one way or another to withdraw their children of their own volition (so they weren't put out, they elected to leave). I'm curious about how those students who "elect" to leave impact these graduation stats. Do they count at all? I think not. What happens to the money paid by the taxpayers for the child who leaves during the year? It is my understanding that the charter school does not refund the District for any portion of a year, even though that child is now being educated (unfunded) by the District. Charter schools deny these and other tricks and "accounting procedures" to maximize their financial input and minimize their accountability to standards under which District schools operate
Submitted by Poogie (not verified) on March 26, 2013 6:37 pm
At my neighborhood High School I would say 25%-40% of the students have been at a charter at one time or another and were kicked out for bad behavior. Are these kids in the proffered statistics?
Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on March 26, 2013 6:01 pm
25%-40%? Really? That's a pretty big range. Which is it?
Submitted by Poogie (not verified) on March 27, 2013 11:34 am
Fair point. But in most of my classes at least 25% have been outside the public school system. Some in parochial schools. But they return to the public systems due to some failure usually behavioral. We are then held hostage to bad behavior by students we cannot get rid of but charters can in heartbeat. This what upsets public school teachers. We have to deal with these kids who are going nowhere but committed to taking down their classmates and schools. That is why the charter to public school comparison is meaningless. At some not too distant point we will be in a system with charter schools and schools like Camelot which are held to lower and different standards. But now everyone in public education is committed to the myth that all kids are salvageable on the High School level not matter what history tells us about their past. Since this policy would preclude the full implementation of an all charter business model the SRC will get it changed which something current public educators do not have the will to accomplish. We are moving to an apartheid education system in Philadelphia wherein good students will be isolated from their troubled brethren on the City. This is all being done with the blessing and support of supposedly liberal political leaders which have decided to leave the really difficult students to the tender mercies of fate.
Submitted by ProPublicEducation (not verified) on March 27, 2013 3:58 pm
The dual standards for charter and public schools is all part of the plan. A 2 tiered system, one that is funded, and the District's which is more and more underfunded.
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Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on March 26, 2013 10:08 pm
The charter doing this is known by the district, yet they (district) do nothing. If the charter is in its first year then it must be a Renaissance or district chosen charter. You really have no clue what's going on and to what extent. The charter(s) doing this stuff are pathetic and do not deserve to be called educators. However, the posts discussing which students "want" to learn and "don't want" to learn are just as pathetic. Your job and profession is to teach children. All children. If you don't believe that all kids can learn (save for cognitive or other truly severe condition), then you have no business in a classroom. It's not just the fault of teachers, but a great teacher reaches all kids.
Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on April 11, 2013 8:12 pm
Are you a teacher? It doesn't sound like you are. Actually, what most people are referrring to, when they mention students who "want to take down the schools" are a few hard-core sociopaths. That is, these are people who come to school to "sell stuff" and you know what I mean by that. I have spent time around eighteen year olds who (a) refuse to sit down in a classroom, (b) spend the majority of their time being verbally abusive to whomever they choose to throw their comments at, your son or the teacher alike, and who (c) have no desire or direction to succeed in the regular working world. These people have specifically told me about how much money they make selling whatever,(such as jars of paint thinner to inhale for twenty dollars or such), and how people who just "work" for a living are fools. Now then, tell me how to "reach" such an individual, until life has kicked them around enough to warrant they change their mind about things. And heaven help the person who says anything to their families. Talk about threats (as in "I'm gonna whup your a__" from a mom). Anyhow, these are the students who don't make it in the charter schools.
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Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on March 26, 2013 11:26 pm
I'm totally appalled to hear these viewpoints from all involved. I founded a charter school and that's not what it is all about. These teachers are dedicated too and work their butts off. They are just the same as the anonymous teacher. I was a teacher at SDP for 10 years. There is a point where you say enough is enough. The support was not there, administratively. You cannot work somewhere, when your morals, ethics, and values....honesty, are challenged. I'm also a LSW, in essence, my ethics were challenged too, especially being honest...I was honest, I cannot speak for others. It is everywhere you work, but too immense in SDP. I resigned. I miss my students...ALL OF THEM. The children of our future are robbed of their future. Thank you. Administration. Charter schools works, w over a 6 year period and 80
Submitted by reformer (not verified) on March 27, 2013 1:44 am
I'm not sure if this tells us anything except, district or charter,the more you control your intake, the higher your yield. this doesn't tell you who's teaching.
Submitted by Education Grad ... on March 27, 2013 1:00 am
reformer, That's exactly what these statistics say. It's not possible to make an apples to apples comparison because the student populations of charter high schools versus District high schools are not comparable. EGS
Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on March 27, 2013 6:06 am
To a parent, everything is apples to apples. You either send your kid to one school or the other.
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Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on March 27, 2013 8:39 am
That's correct. The non charter schools are going to be extinct because of parents wanting the best for their kids
Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on March 27, 2013 2:26 am
Can the Notebook give the difference between the number of low income and special education students served in charter and district high schools? It would have to be a huge disparity to account for such a larger graduation rate difference.
Submitted by Paul Socolar on March 27, 2013 11:22 am

Last year, we reported that the gap in special education representation was 3 percentage points, and that the % of TANF-eligible students was 11 points higher in District schools than in charters.

This year the District provided us with school-by-school percentages for special ed and for TANF eligible and the gap between the median District high school and median charter high school was almost identical to last year's. We can consider making that spreadsheet available online.

The data are for high school populations overall, not for the graduating class.

This is only to note that the populations in District vs charters are not the same - we are in no way suggesting that this difference fully accounts for a 12-18 point difference in graduation rates.

Submitted by Philly Parent and Teacher (not verified) on March 27, 2013 7:22 am
While graduation rates have increased district wide - charter and School District - do we know anything more about the graduates? What are students doing post graduation? What types of career and college options are available? The debate on curricula and the role of U.S. public high schools began with their expansion in the early 20th century. What does the diploma signify? What should it signify? I'd like to think my students and children leave high school knowing they can learn and want to learn more - in other words, thinking adults. I'd also like to think they will continue to contribute to their communities - in other words, caring adults. I hope they have some fond memories of school; it they are like me, they are primarily social versus academic. They also need a variety of social as well as academic skills to do more than survive. The requirements for a high school diploma - accumulation of credits - does not tell me much about a graduate. Yes, we need to know graduation rates but the statistic doesn't tell us much about the graduates nor their options post graduation. Viable job options? Affordable college? Affordable housing? At a national level, the focus is on testing (NCLB, Race to the Top) and Common Core (reading, writing, math). Has there been a discussion in Philly about what the high school diploma should signify for the student, family and larger community?
Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on March 27, 2013 8:57 am
What about the rights of the students that behave and want to learn? Removing the distractions and problem children is a good thing.
Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on March 27, 2013 8:04 am
But it's not about their rights is it? It's about trying to find an excuse why the charter schools are kicking your asses. There are bad and lazy teachers out there and you know who you are. As a parent of a child in the PSD I'm going to find the best possible situation for her and my choice of GWCS was the right decision
Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on March 27, 2013 10:15 am
This comes from the Office of Accountability of the School District of Philadelphia. This must be read with the awareness that the School District has been taken over by corporate education reformers from the Broad Foundation and the Philadelphia School Partnership.
Submitted by tom-104 on March 27, 2013 11:22 am
It should be noted that Mark Gleason, leader of the Philadelphia School Partnership, has been named as an "Education Reformer to Watch" by The Walton Family Foundation (owners of Wal-Mart). Be sure to read the What to Watch in 2013 section: http://www.waltonfamilyfoundation.org/educationreform/education-reformer...
Submitted by reformer (not verified) on March 27, 2013 11:23 am
so you only believe the district only when they're critical of charters? do you believe the increase in graduation rates are accompanied by an increase in preparedness? would you hire a school district grad? do you think these issues are real or is it just a pr problem?
Submitted by tom-104 on March 27, 2013 11:43 am
This article about the same kind of study (no accident) in South Carolina is an interesting comment about this study in Philadelphia. Here We Go Again: Misleading Charter Praise from Schools Matter “The raw "excellent" ratings of most of these charter schools certainly justifies praise, but to suggest that charter schools—because they are charter schools—are somehow producing elite and exceptional results when compared to public schools serving essentially the same populations as those charter schools is misleading—revealing that such claims have some ulterior motives beyond praising academic success of schools. The charter schools are not exceptional; they are typical, and they do not in any way justify further expansion of charter schools, especially while public schools are routinely demonized and marginalized in the media and through misguided policy decisions.” http://www.schoolsmatter.info/2013/03/here-we-go-again-misleading-charte...
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